|
|
Julia Williams, born is Winepark, Chestarfield County near Richmond, Virginia. Har age is estimated close to 100
years. A little more or a little less, it is not known for sure.Her memory is becoming faded. She could remember her mothers name was Katharine but her father died when shewas vary small and she remembers not his name.
Julia had three sisters, Charlotte, Ross and Emaline Mack. The last names of the first two, Charlotte and Rose she
could not recall.As her memory is becoming faded, her thoughts wander from one thing to another and her speech is not very plain,the following is what I heard and understood during the interview.
"All de slaves work with neighbors; or like neighbers now-adays. I no work in do fiel, I slave in do house, maid tode mistress.""After Yankees come, one sister same to Ohio with me."
"The slaves get a whippin if they run away.""After Yankees come, my ole mother come home and all chillen together. I live with gramma and go home afterwork each day. Hired out doin maid work. All die after Yankees come dat I live with gramme."
"Someone yell, "Yankees are comin', and de mistress tall me, she say 'You mus learn to be good and hones'. I toleher, 'I am now'.""We I nevah get no money foh work.""I allways had good meals and was well taken care of. Do Mrs. she nevah let me be sold."
"She we had a cock in de kichen and she was a slave too.""Plantashun slaves had gardens but not de house slaves. I allus hvl had de bes clothes and bes meals, anyting I wantto eat. De Mrs. like me and she like me and she say effen you went sompin ask foh it, any-time you want sompin orhaff to have, get it. I didn suffer for any-thin befoh dim Yankees come."
"After de Yankees come oven de house people, do white people didn get shoes. But I hab some, I save. I have someothah shoes I didn date go in de house with. Da had wood soles. Oh Lawd how da hurt wah feet. One day I comedown stair too fas and slip an fall. Right den I tile de Mrs. I couldn wear dem big heavy shoes and besides da makesmah feet so sore."
"Bof de Mrs. and de Master sickly. An their chillun died. Da live in a big manshun house. Sho we had an overseer
on de plantashun. Do poor white people da live purty good, all dat I seed. It was a big plantashun. I can't remember how big but I know dat it was she big. Da had lots an lots of slaves but I doan no sackly how many. Da scattered around de plantashun in diffrent settlements. De horn blew every mohnin to wake up de fiel hans. Da gone to fiel long time foh I get up. De fiel hans work from dawn till dark, but evabody had good eats on holidays. No work jus eat and have good time."
"Da whipp dem slaves what run away."
"One day after de war was over and I come to Ohio, a man stop at mah house. I seem him and I know him too but I pretend like I dids, so I say, 'I doan want ter buy nothin today' and he says 'Doan you know me?' Don I laugh an say she I remember the day you was goin te whip me, you run affar me and I run to de Mrs. and she wouldn lot you whip me.
hvl
Now you bettah be careful or I get you."
"She I saw slaves sole. Da come from all ovah to buy an sell de slaves, chillun to ole man and women."
"De slaves walk and travel with carts and mules."
"De slaves on aukshun block dey want to highes bidder. One colored woman, all de men want her. She sold to de master who was de highes bidder, and den I saw her comin down de road singin 'I done got a home at las!'. She was half crazy. De master he sole her and dan Mrs. buy her back. They lef her work around de house. I used to make her work and make her shine things. She say I make her shine too much, but she haff crazy, an run away."
"No day didn help colored folks read and writs. Effn dey saw you wif a book dey knock it down on de floor. Dey wouldn let dem learn."
"De aukshun allus held at Richmond. Plantashun owners come from all states to buy slaves and sell them."
"We had church an had to be dere every single Sunday. We read de Bible. De preacher did the readin. I can't read or write. We who had good prayer meetins. Show nuf it was a Baptis church. I like evey spiritual, all of dem."
"Dey baptise all de young man and women, colored folks. Dey sing nos any spirtual, none in paticlar. I bell toll foh a funeral. At de baptizen do de preacher leads dem into de rivah, way in, den each one he stick dem clear under. I was gonna be batize and couldn. Eva time sompin happin an I couldn. My ole mothah tells me I gotta be but I never did be baptize when Ise young in de south. De othah people befoh me all batized."
"A lot of de slaves came north. Day run away cause day didn want to be slaves, like I didn like what you do and I get mad, den you get mad an I run away."
"De pattyroller was a man who watched foh de slaves what try to run away. I see dem sneakin in an out dem bushes. When dey fine in de give im a good whippin."
"I nevah seed much trouble between de whites and blacks when I live dare. Effen dey didn want you to get married, they wouldn let you. Dey had to ask de mastah and if he say no he mean it."
"When de Yankees were a comin through dem fiels, dey sno was awful. Dey take everythin and destroy what ever they could not take. De othah house slave bury the valuables in de groun so de soldiers couldn fine em."
"One of the house slaves was allus havin her man comin to see her, se one day affer he lef, when I was makin fun and laughin at her de mistress she say, 'Why you picken on her?' I say, dat man comin here all the time hangin round, why doan he marry her."
"I was nevah lowed to go out an soshiate with de othah slaves much. I was in de house all time."
"I want to prayer meetins every Sunday monin and evanin."
"Sometimes dey could have a good time in de evenin and sometimes day couldn.""Chrismas was a big time for everyone. In the manshun we allus had roast pig and a big feed. I could have anythin I
want. New Years was the big aukshun day. All day hollerin on de block. Dey come from all evah to Richmond tobuy and sell de slaves."hvl"Butchern day she was a big time. A big long table with de pigs laid out ready to be cut up.""Lots of big parties an dances in de manshun. I nevah have time foh play. Mrs. she keep me busy and I work when I
jus little girl and all mah life."
"Effen any slaves were sick dey come to do house for splies and medsin. De Mrs. and Master had de doctor if thingswere very bad.""I'll nevah forget de soldiers comin. An old woman tole me de war done broke up, and I was settin on de porch. De
Mrs. she say, 'Julia you ant stayin eneymore'. She tole me if I keep my money and save it she would give me some. An she done gave me a gold breast pin too. She was rich and had lets of money. After the war I went home to my mother. She was half sick and she work too hard. On de way I met one slave woman who didn know she was even free."
"The Yankees were bad!""I didn get married right away. I worked out foh diffren famlies.""After de war dare was good schools in de south. De free slaves had land effen dey knowed what to do with. I got
married in the south to Richard Williams but I didn have no big weddin. I had an old preacher what knowed all bout
de Bible, who married me. He was a good preacher. I was de mothah of eight chillun.""Lincoln? "Well I tell you I doan know. I didn have no thought about him but I seed him. I work in de house all detime and didn hear much about people outside."
"I doan believe in ghosts or hants. As foh dancin I enjoy it when I was young."hvl"I cant read and I thought to myself I thought there was a change comin. I sense that. I think de Land he does
everythin right. De Land open my way. I think all people should be religious and know about de Lawd and his
ways."Har husband came to Wadsworth with the first group that came from Doylestown. The men came first then theysent for their families. Her husband came first them sent for her and the children. They settled in Wadsworth andbuilt small shacks then later as times got better they bought properties.
This year is the 57th Anniversary of the Wadsworth Colored Baptist Church of which Julia Williams was a chartermember. She is very close 100 years old if not that now and lives at; 160 Kyle Street, Wadsworth,6-14-37 HVL(Lees, Ohio Guide - Special, Ex-Slave Stories, 17 Aug 1937 JULLA WILLIAM'S, (Supplementary Story))Williams, Julia -- Additional InterviewSupplementary Story
"After de War deh had to pick their own livin an seek homes."
"Shuah, deh expected de 40 acres of lan an mules but deh had to work foh dem.""Shuah, dey got paht of de lan but de shuah had to work foh it.""After de war deh had no place ter stay an den deh went to so many diffrunt places." "Some of dem today doan have
settled places to live."
"Those owners who were good gave their slaves lan but de othahs jus turned de slaves loose to wander roun.""Othahs try to fine out where dere people were an to(go) to them.""One day I seed a man who was a doctor, down dere an I says, "You doktah now?" "An says 'No, I doan doktah no
mow." I work foh him once when I was slave, few days durin de war." "I say, 'Member that day you gonna lick mebut you didn, you know I big woman an fight back." "Now de war ovah and you can't do dat now.""After tha war say, I am here now but I may go to nother place." "I was free to go."
"Slaves didn get money unless deh work for it." "Maybe a slave he would work long time before he get eny pay." "Lak you hiah me an you say you goin to pay me an then you doan." "Lots of them hiahed slaves aftah de war and worked dem a long time sayin deh gwine pay and then when he ask for money deh drive him away instead of paying him."
"Yes some of de slaves were force to stay on de plantashuns." "I see how some had to live." "They had homes for awhile but when deh werunt able to pay dere rent cause deh werunt paid deh were thrown out of dere houses." "Some of dem didn know when deh were free till long time aftah de wah."
"When I were free, one mornin I seed the mistress and she ask me would I stay with her a couple years." "I say, 'NoI gonna find mah people an go dere.""Enyway, she had a young mister, a son, an he was mean to de slaves." "I nebber lak him.""Once I was sent to mah missys brother for a time but I wouldin stay dere, he to ruff.""No deh didn want you to learn out of books."
"My missy say one day when I was free, 'Now you can get your lessons.'"I allus lowed to do what I wanted, take what I wanted, and eat what I wanted." "Deh had lots of money but whatgood did it do them, deh allus was sick."
"De poor soldiers had lots to go thru even aftah de war. Deh starvin and beggin and sick.""De slaves had more meetins and gatherins aftah de war.""On de plantashun where I work dey had a great big horn deh blow every mornin to get de slaves up to go to de fiel.
I allus get up soon aftah it blew, most always, but this mornin dey blew de horn a long time an I says what foh deyblow dat horn so long, an den de mastah say, 'You all is free.' Den he says ter me, 'What you all goin to do now', anI says, 'I'm goin to fine my mothah."
"One day a soldier stop me an he says, 'Sister, where do you live?' I tole him, den he says, 'I'm hungry.' So I went an
got him sompin to eat.""One time I was to be sold de next day, but de missy tole the man who cried the block not to tell me, but deh solemy mothah an I didn see her aftah dat till jus befoh de war ovah."
"All dat de slaves got aftah de war, was loaned dem and dey had to work mighty hard to pay for dem. I saw a lot ofpoor people out off from votin and deh cut off right now, I guess." "I doan like it dat de women vote. A woman aint
got no right votin, nohow.""Most of de slaves get pensions and are taken care of by their chillun.""Ah doan know about de generation today, jus suit yourself bout dat.""De people still have uprisins at times, today even.""Ah doan remember but I heard bout de Nat Turner rebellion.""Ah didn have no time foh singing songs, I doan member bout none of dem.""Ah cant member bout, but I heard bout dat hanging of John Brown."Reference: Julia Williams, 160 Kyle Street, Wadsworth, Ohio.Wilson, Jesse Miriam Logan, compiling Ruth Thompson, editing (Lebason, Ohio Warren County) "Williams, Julia -- Additional Interview"After de War deh had to pick their own livin' an seek homes."Shuah, deh expected de 40 acres of lan' an mules, but deh had to work foh dem.""Shuah, deh got paht of de lan but de shuah had to work foh it."After de war deh had no place to stay an den deh went to so many diffrunt places. Some of dem today don't have
settled places to live.
"Those owners who were good gave their slaves lan but de othahs jus turned de slaves loose to wander roun'.Othahs try to fine out where dere people were and went to them."One day I seed a man who was a doctor down dere, an' I says, 'You doktah now?' An says 'No, I doan doktah no
now.' I work foh him once when I was slave, few days durin de war. I say, 'Member that day you gonna lick me butyou didn', you know I big woman an fight back. Now de war ovah and you can't do dat now'.
"Slaves didn get money unless deh work for it. Maybe a slave he would work long time before he get any pay.""Lak you hire me an you say you goin to pay me an then you don't. Lots of them hired slaves aftah de war andworked dem a long time sayin deh gwine pay and then when he ask for money, deh drive him away instead of payinhim.
"Yes, some of de slaves were force to stay on de plantation. I see how some had to live." "They had homes forawhile but when deh women's able to pay dere rent cause deh weren't paid, deh were thrown out of dere houses."Some of dem didn't know when deh were free till long time after de Wah.
"When I were free, one mornin I seed the mistress and she ask me would I stay with her a couple years. I say, 'No Igonna find mah people an go ders.""Anyway, she had a young mister, a son, an he was mean to de slaves." "I nebber lak him.
"Once I was sent to mah missy's' brother for a time but I wouldn' stay dere: he too rough."No, deh didnt want you to learn out of books. My missy say one day when I was free, 'Now you can get yourlessons."
"I allus lowed to do what I wanted, take what I wanted, and eat what I wanted. Deh had lots of money but whatgood did it do them? Deh allus was sick.
"De poor soldiers had lots to go thru, even after de wah. Deh starvin and beggin and sick.
"De slaves had more meetins and gatherins aftah de war.
"On de plantation where I work day had a great big horn blow every mornin to get de slaves up to de field, I allus get up soon after it blew, most allways, but this mornin dey blew de horn a long time an I says, 'what foh dey blow dat horn so long?' en den de mustah say, 'You all is free'. Den he says ter me, 'What you all goin to do now', and I says, 'I'm goin to fine my mother.
"One day a soldier stop me an says, 'Sister, where do you live?' I tole him, den he says, 'I'm gungry.' So I went an got him sompin to eat.
"One time I was to be sold de next day, but de missy tole the man who cried the block not to sell me, but deh sold my mother and I didn't see her after dat till just befoh de war ovah.
"all dat de slaves got after de war was loaned dem and dey had to work mighty hard to pay for dem. I saw a lot of poor people cut off from votin' and dey off right now, I guess. I doan like it dat de woman vote. A woman ain't got no right votin, nohow.
"Most of de slaves get pensions and are taken care of by their chillun." "Ah doan know about de generation today, just suit yourself bout dat. Julia Williams resides at 150 Kyle St., Wadsworth, Ohio
OHIO
These Ohio residents mostly lived in the southern tier of counties, near the Kentucky and West Virginia borders of the state. Therefore, it is not surprising that sixteen were born in Kentucky and five in western Virginia, for the most part west of the line that was to divide West Virginia from Virginia after the western part of the state was separated from the Confederacy during the Civil War. Six were from western North Carolina, five each from Tennessee and Georgia, and one each came from South Carolina and Florida. Only one listed no state of birth.
The narratives in the Ohio Historical Society collection were typed from earlier versions in 1941. This is surprising because it was after the main project had been completed. Some were typed as late as November 1941. For those narratives from the Archive of Folk Song, there is no indication of date, except that the one copied from a magazine article was copied in 1940 from an article written in 1934.
When we compare the narratives that were not in the main collection in the Rare Book Room with those that were there, we cannot discover any pattern whatsoever to account for these having been kept out, except that a few were obviously weak and a few apparently arrived rather late in the collection process. When we examine those for which we have different versions in the main collection, again we can find no pattern in the changes. It will be helpful here to examine each of these "different versions" in detail in order to gain some important insights into the "rewrite" process in the collection of these narratives.
The narrative in the Ohio Historical Society collection under the name of Mary Belle Dempsey is really a third-person historical account of Mrs. Dempsey and the entire original black population of Paulding County, Ohio. Almost none of it is the same as the first-person narrative of Mrs. Dempsey in the Rare Book Room. The third-person narrative was based on information given by Mrs. Dempsey and by Mrs. Charles Stahl, Clerk of Courts, Paulding, Ohio.
The narrative in the Ohio Historical Society collection under the name of Wade Glenn is a rewritten and shortened version of a narrative of that name in the Rare Book Room. The original was much more interesting and more concrete. There are a few differences in detail as well. Thus, in the original, Glenn's brother is reported as having played a violin. In the later version the instrument becomes a guitar.
There are three versions of the narrative of Mrs. Celia Henderson. It is clear that the original is the one found in the Rare Book Room and printed in volume 16 of this series. It shows the least evidence of having been rewritten. The version in the Archive of Folk Song seems to have been the first rewritten one; the one found in the Ohio Historical Society seems to have been developed largely from that one. Both of the rewritten versions attempt to "tidy up" the flow of the language; while they do not remove much, the changes make it a much less interesting narrative. Little touches of pathos with a bit of "stage mammy" thrown in have been added, such as this from the Archive of Folk Song version: "Ah's eight-eight years ol' and they tell me not to worry, fo' dey goin' to gib me a pension. Dey go to a heap of wuk to get all papers fix right."
The Archive of Folk Song version has a long commentary which says things like "she has nothing interesting to relate about negro life in Lebanon, and of course remembers nothing about any Underground Railway activities here---nor does she remember anything about runaway slaves at all." The commentator is obviously unimpressed by the rich detail of Mrs. Henderson's narrative. Moreover, in a further effort to belittle Mrs. Henderson's memory, the commentator tells us that she does not describe clothing or the living quarters in Natchez but "is very careful to state that it is NATCHEZ ON THE HILL where she lived, not Natchez proper as I understand it." If the commentator had known anything about Natchez, the emphasis would not have been misunderstood. Indeed, Natchez on the Hill was quite literally "Natchez proper." Natchez Under the Hill was one of the most notorious honkytonk red light districts in America, the center of gambling, brawling, and prostitution for the raftmen and the river pirates from the Spanish eighteenth century into the American twentieth century. Mrs. Henderson's mother was a "proper" person, she is telling us. She did not work as a prostitute but as a cook!
The original Henderson interview is a rich one. The rewrites reflect the values of the writers who created a minstrel stage character out of this account of one woman's life. There was nothing conscious or deliberate about these rewrites; they simply illustrate the superior humanity of the ex-slave to that of those given the task of "writing up" her story.
The two available versions of Catherine Slim's narrative are identical except for the very interesting fact that the following lines appear at the end of the Ohio Historical Society version and not in the Library of Congress version. "I learned de scriptures which say, Servants obey your masters. I was a refugee and hid wid different people and de kin of me master hid me between blankets once til to stop dem ketchin' me. I hab lived in Ohio seventy-two years. I cum to Ohio in sixty five." This addition to the narrative tells us that as an adolescent during the Civil War Catherine Slim ran away and crossed over to Ohio from West Virginia (when interviewed she lived on the Ohio-West Virginia border) with the aid of some relatives of her master. It may be that there was an attempt to censor this fact, or it may be that the fourth page was lost. The narrative in the Rare Book Room ends at the very bottom of a page.
There are two new versions of the narrative of Anna Smith, both of which are from the Ohio Historical Society. One is identical to the thirdperson narrative in the Rare Book Room and published in volume 16 of this series, except that it corrects a typographical error that appears in the Rare Book Room version. In the Rare Book Room narrative we have: "Her father was a slave belonging to Judge Toll" and nothing at that point about her mother. In the Ohio Historical Society version, obviously the original copy, it reads: "Her father was a slave belonging to William Clarke on an adjoining estate. Her mother belonged to Judge Toll." This variation indicates that there were office copies in Ohio from which the ones sent to Washington were copied and that in the process innocent errors crept in.
The second version in the Ohio Historical Society is a brief first-person narrative. There are two possibilities as to its origins: either it was created by an editor from the field notes---the third-person narrative that was sent to Washington---or it was an excerpt from a longer original first-person narrative. The likelihood is that the first alternative occurred; otherwise it would be difficult to understand the process whereby the longer first-person narrative was cut down. It is very important to recognize that the entire collection has many third-person narratives. For Georgia (see the introduction to the Georgia volume in this third series) we have many examples of both first-person and third-person versions of the same narratives in which it is clear that the originals are in the third person---that they are field notes. After all, we have no evidence that stenographic processes were used, and with rare exceptions there were no recording devices. Therefore, it would be just as "normal" for the interviewer to take down notes in the third person as in the first person. Then an editor would come along and put it in dialogue form and add dialect.
The version of the narrative of Samuel Sutton in the Ohio Historical Society was clearly a rewrite of that in the Rare Book Room. It is equally clear that some other notes not found were being used. The following material appears in the Ohio Historical Society version but not in the other. Sutton is referred to as "the oldest person on the Aid for the Aged List in Warren County." He also is quoted as saying: "Celia Henderson, her mothah married my fathah and his name was Sutton. Celia am my stepsister. Her mothah come here a good while ago." Both of these statements come from some other version than the one in the Library of Congress. There are a few statements which may come from some third manuscript but which also may well be the inventions of the editor, such as "I never heard of the Underground Railroad way back then..." and "dey read out de Emancipation Proclamation on de Fourth of July." In context, both of these may have been an editor's creative elaboration of Sutton's words as recorded in the Rare Book Room version.
The Ohio Historical Society version of the Richard Toler narrative includes a copy of a newspaper clipping about Toler which contains material different from that in the narrative itself. This clipping was probably left out as it was not thought to be a real "narrative." The narrative of Charles Williams in the Ohio Historical Society version has only a few words not in the item in the Rare Book Room. Obviously, only a typographical error was involved.
Perhaps the most interesting difference between the Ohio Historical Society and Rare Book Room versions occurs in the narrative of Julia Williams. On the last page of the narrative in the Ohio Historical Society only, the following appears. Its significance needs no comment. It reads: "De people still have uprisings at times, today even. Ah doan remember but I heard bout de Nat Turner rebellion. Ah didn have no time foh singing songs, I doan member bout none of dem. Ah cant member bout, but I heard bout dat hanging of John Brown."
