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MATTIE GILMORE lives in a little cabin on E. Fifth Avenue. in Corsicans, Texas. A smile came to her lips, as she
recalled days when she was a slave in Mobile, Alabama. She has no idea how old she is. Her master, Thomas
Barrow, brought his slaves to Athens, Texas, during the Civil War, and Mattie had two children at that time, so she
is probably about ninety.
"I's born in Mobile, Alabama, and I don't have no idea when. My white folks never did tell me how old I was. My
own dear mammy died 'fore I can remember and my stepma didn't take no time to tell me nothin'. Her name was
Mary Barrow and papa's name was Allison Barrow, and I had sisters. Rachel and Lou and Charity, and a brother,
Allison.
"My master sold Rachel when she was jus' a girl. I sho' did cry. They put her on a block and sold her off. I heared
they got a thousand dollars for her, but I never seed her no more till after freedom. A man named Dick Burdon,
from Kaufman County, bought her. After freedom I heared she's sick and brung her home, but she was too far gone.
"We lived in a log house with dirt floors, warm in winter but sho' hot in summer, no screens or nothin', jus'
homemade doors. We had homemade beds out of planks they picked up around. Mattresses nothin', we had shuck
beds. But, anyway, you takes it, we was better off den dan now.
"I worked in the fields till Bachel was sold, den tooken her place, doin' kitchen work and fannin' flies off de table
with a great, long limb, I liked dat. I got plenty to eat and not so hot. We had jus' food to make you stand up and
work. It wasn't none the good foolish things we has now. We had cornbread and blackeyed peas and beans and
sorghum 'lasses. Old master give us our rations and iffen dat didn't fill us up, we jus' went lank. Sometimes we had
possum and rabbits and fish, iffen we cotched dem on Sunday. I seed Old Missy parch coffee in a skittle, and it
good coffee, too. We couldn't go to the store and buy things, 'cause they warn't no stores hardly.
"When dey's hoein' cotton or corn, everybody has to keep up with de driver, not hurry so fast, but workin' steady.
Some de women what had suckin' babies left dem in de shade while dey worked, and one time a big, bald eagle flew
down by one dem babies and picked it up and flew away with it. De mama couldn't git it and we never heared of dat
baby 'gain.
"I 'member when we come from Mobile to Texas. By time we heared de Yankees was comin' dey got all dere gold
together and Miss Jane called me and give me a whole sack of pure gold and silver, and say bury it in de orchard. I
sho' was scart, but I done what she said. Dey was more gold in a bit desk, and de Tanks pulled de top of dat desk
and got de gold. Miss Jane had a purty gold ring on her finger and de captain yanked it off. I said, 'Miss Jane, is dey
gwine give you ring back?' All she said was, 'Shet you mouth,' and dat's what I did.
"Dat night dey digs up de buried gold and we left out. We jus' traveled at night and rested in daytime. We was scart
to make a fire. Dat was awful times. All on de way to de Mississip', we seed dead men layin' everywhere, black and
white.
"While we's waitin' to go cross de Mississip' a white man come up and asks Marse Barrow how many niggers he
has, and counts us all. While we's waitin' de guns 'gins to go boom, boom, and you could hear all dat noise, it so
close.
Then we gits on de boat it flops dis way and dat scart me. I sho' don't want to see no more days like dat one, with
war and boats.
"We fixes up a purty good house and quarters and gits settled up round Athens. And it ain't so long 'fore a paper
come make us free. Some de slaves laughin' and some cryin' and it a funny place to be. Marse Barrow asks my
stepma to stay cook and he'd pay her some money for it. We stayed four or five years. Marse Barrow give each he
slaves somethin' when dey's freed. Lots of master put dem out without a thing. But de trouble with most niggers,
dey never done no managin' and didn't know how. De niggers suffered from de war, even if dey did git freedom
from it.
"I's already married de slave way in Mobile and had three chillen. My husband died 'fore war am over and I marries
Las Gilmore and never has no more chillen. I has no livin' kinfolks I knows of. When we come here Las done any
work he could git and bought this li'l house, but I can't pay taxes on it, but, sho', de white folks won't put me out. I
done git my leg cut off in a train wrack, so I can't work, and I's too old, noways. I don't has no idea how old I is.
Gilmore, Mattie -- Additional Interview
Mattie Gilmore is a typical example of the by gone slave days, she lives in a little cabin on East 5th Avenue in
Corsicana. Small in figure, and very feeble she lives in seclusion in her little home that her husband mowed lawns
or cleaned houses or anything else that he could get to do to pay for their little place. She talks freely of slave days
and often a smile comes to her lips as she recalls instances of those days seventy five years ago when she was a
slave in Mobile Alabama. She has no idea how old she is but she can remember fleeing from the Yankees when she
was a small girl, crossing the Mississippi in a skiff and traveling nights and covering their fires to keep the smoke
from attracting attention. Her marster was Thomas Barrow, a Methodist preacher. He bought several wagons loads
of slaves here from Alabama and settled near Athens Texas, and Aunt Mattie lived there until she married Las
Gilmore. She had married the slave way during slavery and had had three children, but her husband and the children
had all passed on before the close of the war. She lives alone in a modestly furnished little home on a small pension
she gets from the government. Her mind wanders much in her talking, but she can tell many interesting stories and
gruesome tales of happenings of the war period. She tells stories of seeing dead men both black and white and
hearing the roar of the guns and the screams of the men in battle. She witnessed the hanging of one negro man and
tells of seeing many whipped until they were almost lifeless. She has no living relatives and says she hopes to pass
on before another war so she wont to have to see the suffering that follows such.
"I was bo'n in Mobile, Alabama, and I don't hab no idee when. Mah white folks never did tell me how ole I was and
I don't know. Mah own dear mammy died 'fore I can remembah and mah step mamma didn't take time ter tell me
anything. Mah step-mamma's name was Mary Barrow and mah papas name was Allison Barrow. Mah oldest sisters
name was Rachel and den der was Lou and Charity and mah brother Allison.
Mah marster sold mah sister Rachel when she was just a girl. I shore did cry. They jest put her on a block and sold
her off, I heard they got $1000. fer her, but I dont know fer shore iffen dat is right. I never seed her any more until
after we was freed. A man by the name of Dick Burdon from Kaufman County bought her. After de war was ovah I
heard she was sick so I went and brought her ter mah house, and had a doctor, but she was too fer gone. I dont know
what was de matter wid her, been worked too much I reckon, fer she died and dat was de last of mah people.
When I was a slave we lived in a log house wid dirt floors. Dey was warm enough in de wintah, but dey was shore
hot in de summah. Dey did not have any ceiling in dem and de sun could jest come right on through the roof. No
screens er nuthin, jest home made doors. We jest had home made bed steads made outen plank dat dey picked up
about de place. Mattresses nuthin, we had shuck beds and a good straw bed was a rarity. But anyway, you'se take it,
we was bettah off den den we are now. Gettin a little money has made fools of mos of de niggers. Niggers use ter
never speak ter a white woman, and nigger women didnt use ter be so sassy lak dey is now.
Mah marster never owned any of mah grandparents and I jest dont know anything bout dem. I was bound ter have
had some around somewheres, but I never heard anything bout dem.
I allus worked in de fiels til mah sister Rachel was sole, she allus worked in de house and done de house work,
worked in de kitchen, and carried vituals ter de table, and fanned flies offen de table wid a great long limb, and den
when dey sole her I had ter take her place. I laked dat. I got plenty ter eat and hit wasnt so hot. De missus made me
watch de other niggers dat come ter de house, I had ter tell her ever time, I seed dem get anything den dey allus got
a whippen and den mah step mother would allus whip me fer tellin. I membah she took me out in de woods once
and tied me ter a limb by mah feet and whipped me wid peach tree limbs. Mah missus sure was mad. I tole mah
mamma dat I had ter tell what I seed er de missus would whip me and mah step mamma said she would cut mah
tongue out iffen I didn't quit tellin, so I jest got into hit ever way I went.
Well iffen any one says dat we got money fer workin, in slave days dey jest don't know what dey is talkin bout. I
say money, I never had a piece of money in mah han ter call mah own til I was grown near bout. But den dat was
slavery time and as I said before we was bettah off wid outten money, its made fools outen mos od dem.
We had plenty ter eat, sech as it was, hit was jest food ter make you stand up and work hit wasnt any of de good
foolish things we have now. We had bread, peas, beans, milk and sorghum lasses. We never had any butter though.
We had flour bread fer breakfast on Sunday morning. De ole marster would give us a gallon bucket full of flour and
dat was all we got and iffen dat didn't fill us up, well, we jest went lank. Sometimes we had possum and rabbits and
fish iffen we could ketch dem on Sunday. And den we had ter have a pass ter go ter de creek. Our marster was a
preacher and he didnt lak fer us ter go fishin on Sunday. But you knows niggers, they shore laks fish. I have seed
mah missus parch coffee in a skittle and hit was good coffee too. We couldnt go ter de store and buy things den lak
we do now. I believe I lak Irish potatoes bettah den any kind of vegetables, but I shore laks bacon too.
Marster Barrow had a big garden and when dey wanted us ter have any vegetables, dey would tell us what we could
have and dats all we got too. We wasnt allowed ter have any garden of our own. Marster said we fool roun too
much in dem.
We allus wore home made clothes, spun and wove and made all on de plantation. Shucks I could spin er weave
either. I heard dat dey had a spinning wheel up here in one of de stores and iffen I could walk up der, I knows I
could run hit as good as I ever did. Mah ole fingers jest kinda tingles when I thinks of it. I shore would lak ter have
a chance at it. We had a little extry clothes ter wear ter church on Sunday. And we allus had plenty of warm clothes
ter wear in de wintah. Sometimes de white folks would give me some old shoe but mos allus in de summah we went
bare-footed. Weddins didn't mount ter much in de slavery times so we didnt have no extry clothes.
Our marster was Thomas Barrow, a Methodist preachaha. His wife de missus, was named Mary. Their oldest
daughter was named Margared, and de next girl was Jane, and den Nancy and one boy Franklin William Barrow.
He went ter war ter help kill the Yanks. Dey lived in a big five or six roomed house, made outten planks. Hit wasnt
even painted though hit was a nice house fer dem days. Dey only had common furniture, I dont know why dey didnt
have any bettah. I knows dey had plenty of money.
Dey had a white man fer an overseer all he had ter do was ride around on a big horse and see dat de niggers worked.
Dey had a colored drivah, he was an ole colored man and he jest had ter lead de hands. When dey was hoeing cotton
or corn ever body had ter keep up wid de drivah, dey didnt have ter hurry so fast, jest keep workin steady. Some of
de women dat had suckin babies would leave dem in de shade while dey worked and let dem nurse in between
times. I members one time a big bald eagle flew down by one of dese babies and picked hit up and flew away wid
hit. De mamma couldnt stop workin ter go and try ter get her baby and we never heard of hit again. De poor mamma
cried til she couldnt cry but hit didnt do no good.
Marster Barrow brought his slaves from Mobile, Alabama and settled near Athens Texas. I well remembers de trip
over here. Before we left our home in Mobile, we heard de Yankees was cumming, but Marster Barrow didnt get
around fast enough. Dey got all der gold together and Miss Jane called me one day and tole me ter come in her room
and she give me a whole sack of pure gold and silver, der wasnt no green backs in hit and hit was all I could carry.
She tole me ter take hit out in de orchard and bury it, I shore was skeared but I done what she said. Dey had some
more gold in a big desk in de same room, hit was jest a little while after dat, de Yanks got der, dey pulled de top off
de desk and got de money and Miss Jane had a purty gold ring on her finger, and de captain yanked hit off. Directly
I asked, "Miss Jane,
is dey gwine ter give your ring back"? All she said was shet your mouf, shet your mouf and dats what I did. Dey got
their money dat dey buried and we left out dat night. We jest traveled at night and rested in de day time. And when
we want ter cook we was skeared ter make a fire afraid de yanks would see us. We had ter be careful, when we did
make a fire to keep de blaze covered. Dat was awful times. Then we got ter de Mississippi River, der was dead men
jest layin ever where, black and white a-lak, dat was worse den a skeary time. While we was waitin ter go over on a
skift a big white man come up and marster Barrow how many niggers he had and he counted ever one of us. All of
us niggers was skeared dat he would say dat part of us couldnt go, iffen he had tole me dat he might jest as well shot
me case I was near dead of fright anyway.
While we was waitin ter be loaded on de skift de guns began ter go boom, boom, boom and you could hear de man
screamin, dey was dat close and dat was jest too close to be comfortable. I hopes I never lives ter see another war,
de sufferin and privations is awful. I can close mah eyes now as long as hit has been and still see de awful things we
seed dat day.
When we got on de skift I never was so skeared in all mah life, hit would flop up one way and den de other and hit
would almost turn over. I held on ter mah step mother and tried ter let on lak I wasnt skeared but I can tell you I
was. After we crossed de rivah we went down in a long hole, a tunnel I guess. Hit was so dark dat you'se couldnt
seed your hand in front of you'se and you'se couldn't seed no sky, I don't know what it was fer. No sah, I shore dont
wants ter seed anuther day lak dat one. Wal we traveled on fer lands knows how long, we had ter travel in de night
and stay hid in de day time. We shore get tired fore we settled close ter Athens Texas. Marster Barrow bought lots
of land. I dont membah how many slaves he brought from Alabama but he had a heap of dem.
Marster Barrow would blow a horn his own self ter wake us up, and he got up in plenty of time ter git our breakfast
and fer de women dat had nursin babies ter tend ter dem. Dey was give milk and bread tween meals, de missus seed
ter dat, she allus said dat iffen you'se didnt feed de chilluns how'd you'se spect dem ter grow up big and strong, ter
sell and ter do hard work. We allus got ter de field tween good day light and sun up and we never quit at night til
sun down. We had ter leave de fiel in time ter pick up chips, roots, or anything dat we could cook suppah wid. We
didn't have no stoves, jes open fire places, and dey shore did make de house hot at night time.
Marster Barrow did not have us whipped much but when he did you'se could shore nuff tell you had a whippen. I
never did git but one whippin and dat was all I needed, hit done me de res of mah life. How come dat ter happen,
Miss Jane tole mer ter do sumpin and I sassed her and she started ter whip me and I jest began to fight her back and
laws help us she calls Marster Barrow and er made me pulls off all mah clothes, I shore did hate to fore all dem
people, but I had hit ter do. Dey made me lay down on mah belly and dey whippen me wid a big long strap dat had
holes in hit and when I got up I was glad ter do what Miss Jane said fer me ter do, and I shore never did try ter fight
her any more.
Now iffen you'se shore wanted ter git a whippen, jes sass a white person, and you'd shore git one, and some niggers
is bad ter steal and dey would shore whip dem iffen dey ketched dem pickin up anything. I never did see de blood
whipped outten anybody, but one time. Mah uncle was accused of puttin poison in his white folks coffee. Dey died
and a mob get him and beat him awful. Dey made us niggers go ter seed him hanged, dey had him standin in a
wagon and de blood was jes runnin down his legs. Dey had de rope round his neck and throwed ovah a limb, dey
asked him iffen he had anything ter say fer his self and he said dat he wanted ter seed his wife. She come ter de
wagon wid de baby and he tole her ter be good and raise de baby right and den he kissed de chile and her and den
he tole de crowd dat he was innocent dat he never done what dey said he did and den he prayed and den he said he
was ready ter die, and dey whipped de team up.
Den dey whipped de team up and jerked de wagon out from under him and he was jes left danglin der. We all had
ter stand right der and watch dem do dat ter him. Dey wouldnt let his wife take him down fer bout an hour, and den
dey took him down and jest put him in a box and stuck him in de ground. I dont know if he was guilty er not, but he
shore got punished iffen he was er wasnt.
No I never heard of a jail in dem days. Dat's one reason I argue dat niggers was better off in slavery time den day is
now. I guess dey had penitentiary den but we never heard of dem. When niggers done sumpin dey wasnt sposed to
dey jest give dem a real good whippin and dat was all der was to hit and dey didnt need no jail. And I jest believes
dat people was jest naturally better in dem days den dey is now. People didnt fight, kill and get drunk den lak dey do
now.
Us niggers hardly ever seed other slaves sole, but I seed mah sister Rachel sole I cried til I jest couldnt cry but hit
didnt do no good. Dey made her pull off part of her clothes so dat dey could see dat she was strong and all right. A
man from Kaufman County bought her. I heard dat he give $1000.00 fer her but I dont know iffen dat is so er not. I
never seed her any more til after slavery was ovah and den I heard dat she was sick so I goes and gits her but she
died any way.
I heard of speckulaters but I guess I never seed any. I'se heard of niggers being drove jest lak cows but I aint never
seed anything lak dat.
Don't talk ter me bout school and learnin ter read and write. Laws man, we never got ter do anything but work,
work. Learnin ter read and write jes never was thought of. We was jes niggers and I reckons dat dey thought dat we
would never need ter learn anything anyway.
Yas sah, we went ter church in brush arbors and had logs ter sat on, so we couldnt go cept in de summah time.
Sometimes in de wintah we would have prayer meetins at one of our cabins. Marster Barrow would read the Bible
ter us and splain it and pray wid us. He would sit on his steps and us niggers would sit roun on de ground and listen
fer hours at him talkin. We never had no baptisms til after slavery time, but I'se went ter lots of dem after we was
free.
When a slave died dey didnt no body stop work but jest his own family, all de res had ter work. Dey had a nigger
cemetery though. Marster Barrow give us nuff ground ter bury our dead. De coffins was allus home made and
sometimes dey was covered in black cloth and sometimes dey was jes plain boxes. Dey would jes sing and pray a
little and dat was all der was to hit, and as soon as dey get home dey had ter go right ter de fiel.
Heavens yas sah, de slaves would sometimes run off, but mos generally dey come back. I have had lots of folks run
off and stay in de woods a few days. Marster Barrow never did hunt fer dem, he allus jes waited and mos of de time
dey come strayin in.
You'se knows den de country was not very well settled and hit was hard ter git anything ter eat so when de
runaways got hungry nuff dey come home fer sumpin ter eat. I had heard of owners chasin runaways with dogs, but
our marster never did do dat.
De slaves did not visit from one plantation ter another very much, dey had ter have a pass, and go and come right on
de dot. Dey mos allus tole all dey knowed and me too. White folks never would know hit anyway and de niggers
never got together often and dey talked hard and fast when dey did visit.
After our work was done at night, durin de week, we would jest set around and talk a little while and den go right
ter bed cause we was too tired ter stay up long. On Satidy mornin we generally had ter shell corn ter take ter mill ter
make corn bread out off. Den on Satidy evenin was wash day fer de slaves. Dat was de only time we had ter wash
our clothes. Sometimes we went ter church on Sundays when der was any ter go ter and sometimes we went down
on de creek fishin. We had ter have a pass ter go down der. Marster Barrow was a preachah you knows and he didnt
lak fer us ter go fishin on Sundays, but we did any way when he would give us a pass.
Sometimes on Satidy nights we would have parties and dances, but dey wasnt messes lak dey have now, dey didnt
git drunk and holler round and act crazy, dey behaved dem selves.
At Christmas time hit was jest lak any other time wid de slaves. We never had anything extry. Marster Barrows
allus had big dinnah but dey never done us any good. Mah step mamma cooked fer dem all de time and on extry
times lak dat I had ter help her. New Years day was allus a big day of work. We had ter work harder dat day den
any other gos we would work hard all de year. We allus eat black eyed peas and hog jowls fer good luck and sos we
would have money all de year, only we never had any. Marster Barrow did though. We had no holidays der was too
much ter do. We never had ter rush wid our work, jest so it was done, and work steady ever day.
When Miss Jane got married she had a big weddin and I had ter help cook de dinnah. Dey invited all de white folks
from all around. Her dress was made from cotton goods, mos all de nice dresses dem days was made from cotton. I
don't membah any death in marster Barrows family while I was ser slave. Weddins among de slaves was de same as
no weddin at all. Iffen a slave owner had a grown nigger boy and a grown nigger girl he jest tole de boy he could
live wid dat girl and have her fer his wife. I had ter marry dat way and mah slave husband lived on another
plantation. We jest went ter livin together on our plantation. We had three chilluns but de all died.
We chilluns played jes lak any other colored chilluns, little ring games, one I membahs:
"Always from Kare, never spent a dime, Savin all mah change ter pay mah babies fine".
Another one was:
"Go away ole man and leave me alone, I'se a poor girl and a long ways from home."
Der was lots of other songs we would ring up and sing. Some of de colored folks believed in charms. Mr. Towns at
Malakoff ketched rabbits and cut der front feet off and wore hit around his nec, he says he knows hit brings good
luck, I believe hit do too.
I believes in ghos. I knows der is ghos, I has seed dem mah self. Yassah, you'se cant make me believe dat der aint.
Why when I was in de hospital when I had mah leg cut off, I woke up one night wid sumpin goin roun mah bed
singin. Dat almos skeared me ter death, I calls de nurse and she says why auntie der aint nuthin der, but I reckons I
knows what I can sees. She tole me ter go back ter sleep but everytime she would git out of the room, I could hear
sumpin rubbin on de walls out side mah room. Tells me der aint no ghos, dey had got after me several times.
Calomel grows ovah east in low watery places, and he use ter make us go and dig hit up and eat de bottom part of
de stalk and make tea outten de roots. He allus said hit made healthier and better chilluns.
Yassah, I members well de war dat brought our freedom. I members hearin de bugles playin. Hit was jest de first
year of de war dat we come ter Texas. We had allus heard what a fine place dat Texas was and we found out it was
all dat we had heard bout hit. I shore lak Texas.
When de paper come dat made us free, marster Barrow calls us up ter de front yard and reads de paper ter us. Some
of de slaves was laughing and some was cryin, hit was funny place ter be. He said if any of us wanted ter stay he
would pay us fer everything dat we done and we would have ter take de money and buy ever thing dat we got. Hit
was bout de middle of de evenin when he tole us dis and Miss Jane said well you will have ter git some one ter cook
fer us, so marster asked mah mamma iffen she would stay and git suppah and do de cookin after dat and he would
pay her for hit. I had always waited on Miss Jane so I stayed on too. We stayed der four er five years. Some of de
slaves left de same day, but marster Barrow shore was fair ter dem. He give each one sumpin some he give a hog,
others a cow, he did not let one leave wid out sumpin ter start on. Some of de marsters jest put dem out wid out a
thing.
But de trouble wid mos of de niggers dey never had had ter do any managing and dey didnt knows how ter take care
of anything and some jest spent der money plum foolish lak. Yassah de niggers suffered from de war iffen dey did
git their freedom from hit.
De Ku Klux Klan use ter be a dreadful thing right after de war. Dey would go roun in der long white robes and whip
de niggers and sometimes rob dem of everything dat dey had. Der use ter be lots of dem but I aint heard so much of
dem in de las few years.
I had already married de slave way back in Alabama, but mah husband died fore de war was ovah. We had three
chilluns. De oldest one a boy died from a horse kicking. We had three chilluns, and the other two girls dey died
when dey was babies. So after we was freed I married Las Gilmore. We went ter de court house in Athens and
married de white folks way. We never had any chilluns. Mah husband has been dead fer several years and I have no
livin kin folks as I knows of. When we moved ter Corsicana mah husband mowed lawns, done yard work er
anything he could git ter do. He worked hard and bought our little home, hits all paid fer but I cant pay taxes on hit,
but surely de white folks wont put me out. Mah husband and I was coming from Athens on de train years ago and
we had a wreck and I got mah leg cut off, sos I'se not able ter work. Course I'se too ole ter work any way. I don't has
no idee how ole I is.
I knows dat we come ter Texas de first year of de war, I guess bout 1861 and I done married de slave way. Since
mah husband has died de relief has helped me, and now I draws a small pension. I'se afraid ter stay here alone
sometimes, but I has ter do that. I aint got de money ter hire anyone ter stay sos I jes has ter tuff hit out. Der was a
colored man ovah on de west side dat tried ter claim dat I was his auntie, but I dont believe any sech thing, he jes
wanted a place ter hang out but he didnt git hit.
I aint never voted I dont believe in women votin in any way, and corse I couldnt cause I cant read or write.
I think de younger generation is awful, looks lak wid all de good schools and all dey would be a little better but dey
aint. Der is a big school right across de street from me, but dey have ter have white directors, de niggers jest aint got
sence enuff ter run hit. Dey jes aint got no management and a little money that dey have makes a fool outten dem.
And people jest dont make de chilluns mind lak dey use ter, dey now do jest ter suit dem selves and dat aint
generally very good.
I got lots of friens, both white and colored. I'se always tried ter live right cause I wants ter go ter heaven when I die.
Miss Effie Cowan, P.W. McLennan County, Texas (No))
